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At the age of 101, Dr. Starr is a living legend. He has been a life-long advocate for law-related education, first integrating law into his high school civics class in 1934. Dr. Starr is a well-respected educator, academic, and lawyer, but he is probably most known for inspiring many to consider the importance of law-related education (his passion for the subject is contagious). Nathan Nanfelt of WJP Opportunity Fund Grantee Street Law Zambia recently sat down with Dr. Starr for a conversation about the role of law-related education in promoting the rule of law.
Street Law Zambia (SLZ): As a person who has spent much of his life promoting law-related education, why do you think it is important to educate people about the law?
Dr. Starr: We are completely surrounded by the law, whether we want to be or not. It’s the backbone of our society and is with us from the time we’re born— birth certificates—to the time we die—trusts and estates—and everything in between. The clothes we wear, including the ways that fabrics are manufactured and sold, and the food we eat, for example FDA regulations, all involve the law. The law is here, there, and everywhere. The law is not the enemy; it is a way of life.
SLZ: What is the role of law-related education in strengthening the rule of law?
Dr. Starr: Law-related education is a multi-faceted, multi-disciplinary thing. To start with, take a look at civil law. It includes environmental law, torts, and contracts. Then there’s criminal law. There’s so much to learn, but what’s most important is the recognition that every major civilization on earth has been based on the law, whether that was Mosaic law, the Napoleonic code, the Code of Hammurabi, or others. We should actually teach the history of the rule of law in our schools. Each society is motivated by good, and it is the rule of law that enables each [society] to live peacefully and to resolve conflict.
SLZ: What about places where the rule of law is not as strong? What can be done to strengthen the rule of law?
Dr. Starr: The challenge in those places is the decision that people have to make for themselves: whether the dictator knows best or whether the law will be rule by the people. John Adams once said that “ours is a government of laws and not of men,” but we can’t forget that it is men who make the laws. It is men who have to develop the processes that become the rule of law and ultimately are the channels to determine the will of the people.
SLZ: What about teaching about the rule of law in places torn by conflict?
Dr. Starr: I like to think of conflict in terms of two universes. First, the Ptolemaic universe, where we think of ourselves as the center of the universe, or second, the Copernican concept of the universe, where we are all just pieces of a larger world. To live peacefully, we’ve got to evoke the Copernican way of seeing things, where we see the world belonging to all of us collectively, otherwise conflicts will continue. Law-related education has to introduce students to that conversation.
SLZ: What tools have you found to be effective in teaching the rule of law to students?
Dr. Starr: Engage in debate and play acting.[1] And, by the way, the goal here is not at all to get students to agree. Diversity is a part of life—each person has the right to tell you what he or she thinks. What you’re trying to do is to get students to care about being citizens of their country. The First Amendment is critical to that conversation, because it protects the freedom of that speech. That reminds me of a quote from President Wilson, who once said that we have the right to make fools of ourselves by the things we say. Freedom of speech wasn’t created for the speech we love; it was created for the speech we hate. There’s a proper course of action [for the protection of that speech].
SLZ: What are the biggest challenges facing law-related education?
Dr. Starr: You know, when I first began working in law-related education, the biggest problem was getting both educators and lawyers to the table. Both sides have a stake, and both sides can make significant contributions. That can still be a problem today, but what is required is a community of interest that places law-related education as the focal point. You know, movements can come and go, and today we’ve got problems with funding law-related education—that’s a serious threat—but at the end of the day it’s about educating people about what it means to be a citizen.
SLZ: What do you mean by that?
Dr. Starr: Well, President Truman said it best. When he was about to finish being president, someone asked him what he’d do once he was retired. Truman said, “Look, young man, I’m not retiring. I’m assuming the most important office, the office of citizen.” And that really gets to the heart of what law-related education is about. Being a citizen requires nurturing—never ending attention, education, proper attitude, and appreciation.
SLZ: Thank you for your time.
Dr. Starr: Anytime—my pleasure.
[1] Dr. Starr is a modest man, but well into his nineties he portrayed Alexander Hamilton when teaching a lesson on the separation of powers under the United States Constitution.
