This is the first podcast interview in a series exploring on how access to justice build resilience in the Sahel. Read the introduction here.

In the first Rule of Law Talk podcast installment for the Rule of Law Solutions Initiative, WJP's Joe Haley speaks with program officers from the American Bar Association Rule of Law Initiative (ABA-ROLI) and Association Temedt who are working to abolish the practice of descent-based slavery in Mali. The conversation revisits a successful two-year program, supported by the U.S. Department of State's Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, which helped to raise awareness about descent-based slavery and obtain liberation and legal documentation for hundreds of victims. The discussion also touches the problem's historic roots, the difficulty of achieving legislative reform in the midst of a security crisis, and the importance of enlisting customary justice leaders.


  • Alain Kisombwe, Mali Country Director at ABA-ROLI
  • Saïfoulaye Saïdou Sidibe, Program Officer at ABA-ROLI
  • Drissa Niankile, Monitoring and Evaluation Consultant
  • Idrissa Aklinine, Program Coordinator at Association Temedt
  • Moussa Fofana (Translator)



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Support for "Access to Civil Justice in the Sahel" has been provided by the Knowledge Management Fund, a program of the Knowledge Platform Security & the Rule of Law at the Clingendael Institute for International Relations, Netherlands.